It’s unfair to ask Saraki to resign
Senate Leader, Muhammed Ali Ndume, has stoutly denied any division in the nation’s upper legislative chamber. If anything, he says the senate is united and working as one despite the initial friction over the choice of leadership. In an interview with select journalists, he spoke on a number of issues, including the trial of the Senate President before the Code of Conduct Tribunal and President Muhammadu Buhari’s anti-graft war, among others. Ndubisi Orji was there.
All Progressives Congress (APC) senators are still divided. The Lawan group remains bitter that the Saraki group, in defiance to the party directive, denied it the presidency. Why is the party still selling a dummy to Nigerians that all is well?
The so-called factions you talked about is more outside than inside. In the Senate, we only have one faction; and that is the APC. The second one is the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP). Whatever comes to the floor of the senate, all the APC senators are ever united in terms of the business of the senate so far. There was no time in the running of the senate that we exhibited factionalisation. Faction is based on interest, which is normal in politics. People will try their hands on what they want, but if they don’t get it, we put it behind us and move forward. So, in the Senate so far, none of the members has allowed his or her interest to infringe on the overall interest of the Senate at large. We can give the senate that credit that we are ever united in terms of addressing issues that affect the nation. So, the attack from the media about the senate beats me. For example, is there any issue of national importance that the senate has not touched or that has polarised the senate? We had several confirmations, we have screened the ministerial nominees, we have had several bills read and there are some even going through second reading. Anytime issues come up in the senate, we treat it as such.
You were reported to be shuttling between the national leader of your party and the presidency over the senate president, and even some of your colleagues still acknowledged that there is a faction within the APC caucus in the senate?
Yes, the emergence of leadership created some kind of disaffection between us in terms of the two groups that were interested in the positions, but generally, when you have groups contending for positions, it is usually the lucky one that wins. More so, leadership is from God. When the Senate President emerged as the leader, I wanted to run as the Deputy Senate President, but God didn’t make it my way, but I ended up being the Senate Leader, the other group missed out. Truly, the party was not happy initially about how the whole process that produced the presiding officers, especially the DSP (Deputy Senate President), but the same party put all that behind it and said it was ready to move on. So, the party wanted to nominate Senators George Akume and Lawan for the leadership, that too didn’t work out. I that emerged as the Senate Leader, I don’t think I have issues with anybody; eight out of 10 or 11 of my colleagues from the North-east endorsed me for the leader of the senate. That was how I came in. Again, I don’t think we have anything personal against any of our colleagues outside politics. Senator Lawan is my friend. If God had destined that he (Lawan) becomes the president, I would have embraced his leadership. God destined that I would be the leader of the senate. I have never seen or heard Senator Lawan coming out to say he was against my emergence. And I would not have had anything against his emergence as senate president. It is just that out of the two of us or more that wanted to be the leader, it is only one person that could occupy that office at a time. All of us are qualified to be senate president, it is just that it is only one person that would and must be there.
The senate president is presently before the Code of Conduct Tribunal. Are you, like some other people, of the opinion that he should resign his office?
I don’t think so. The constitution of this country is very clear. Everybody is presumed innocent until proven guilty by competent court of law. As at now, the senate president is before a court of law, until he is convicted. I don’t think it will be fair for him to be presumed guilty. What the law says is that until you are proved guilty, you are innocent in the eyes of the law. I think Nigerians should be patient and await the outcome of the verdict of the court. Until that is done, I don’t think it will be fair to ask him to resign. Again, if he felt he wanted to step aside until he is cleared, that would be totally different, but to compel him to resign before commencement of the trial is an aberration.
Some observers have said the ‘carry go’ manner or easy manner the clearing of the 18 ministerial nominees was done was anti-climax, that it may have been so to give a soft landing to the senate president, in case he is convicted by CCT?
I don’t get the logic behind that. Some Nigerians are hailing our actions, because this is, in a long while, the most transparent and thorough screening I have seen. We had instances where this bow and go exercise was being abused. But what we did now was that even if you were a member of the National Assembly, and you are nominated, and because of the respect we have for our colleagues, you can bow and go, but we needed you to interact with us. That was exactly what we did on the floor. You guys (media), no matter what one does, you criticise. If you go right, you criticise, if you decide to go left, it is the same criticism. So, either way, you will never escape the normal criticisms. However, let me say this clearly, the confirmation hearing is as dictated by our constitution. And the constitutional requirement for every nominee is very clear. Senate responsibility is to make sure that every nominee meets that constitutional requirement. So far, I
don’t think there is any nominee cleared against the constitutional provision. The constitutional provision is very simple. It states that every nominee must at least meet the same requirement for those who want to contest for the House of Representatives. And these are basically three. The first is the person must be 30 years old or above. Two: The person must be educated to a certain level. Three: The person must be sponsored or must be a member of a political party. Then of course, there are other requirements that the person must be of sound mind, must not be an ex-convict and be able to show evidence of tax payment. Most of these people meet the requirements. So, senators constitutionally, are qualified to be ministers. And section five of the Nigerian constitution makes it clear. The constitution did not require us to put them through a kind of aptitude test. The senate has the privilege such that when somebody comes, you can say bow and go. In
the case of Alhaji Lai Muhammed, I moved the motion that being the spokesman for our party, a qualified lawyer, a person of credible character, he should be given that respect to take a bow and go. The minority leader seconded it, although there were some dissenting voices which is normal. It is for the minority to have their say and the majority to have their way.
There are fears that the senate might be headed on a collision course with the executive, given that some members of the senate are presently undergoing either interrogation or before the court. Two clear examples are the senate president and the minority leader. What is you fear?
What collision course? For what? The law is there and nobody is supposed to be above the law. Anybody that has questions to answer before the law should be free to do so. It doesn’t matter if you’re the senate president, the minority leader or some senators. That is normal. But we all can presume the person is innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt, because that is what the law says. Otherwise, if it is just accusations, you can accuse anybody. The president at one time was accused of several things before the election. He was cleared eventually. So many people have gone through the process and they are out there today without problems. Some of us went through such and we are today in position of leadership. I was accused of sponsoring Boko Haram and I am in court even though there isn’t evidence before the court to show. I cannot run away from it. It is normal. But for anybody to be presumed guilty before conviction is not fair.
PDP spokesperson in a statement said the Federal Government is arresting political opponents particularly former governor, Godswill Akpabio because of the fear that it might lose power to it in 2019?
I seriously do not see how the arrest of anybody weakens any party. However, Senator Akpabio said he was not arrested but invited by the EFCC and the PDP is saying he was arrested. So, which is which? As Akpabio rightly said, if you serve, especially as governor of a state, a rich state like Akwa Ibom for eight years, there is bound to be grumblings on some certain issues which was expressed in the petition against him. The EFCC has the responsibility of looking into the petition and then, inviting him. And after interrogation, he was allowed to go. I guess that was what happened. I have not heard of any arrest. Even the person involved (Akpabio) said he was not arrested, rather, he was invited. So, when PDP is talking about arresting somebody and the person the party is talking about is saying he was not arrested, then you begin to wonder, what really is happening?
Why is the senate yet to inaugurate the various committees, does it have anything to do with the instability in the house?
Absolute not. What is the instability in the senate you are talking about? If there is one, please tell me. Having said that, there are some committees already in place. There is the public accounts, media, and ad-hoc committees to take care of certain things.
What is then delaying the inauguration of the other normal committees?
Time. Time. We are taking our time, and more importantly, we don’t have ministers in place at the moment. If we inaugurate the committees now, what are they going to be doing? We want the ministers to be in place before we inaugurate the committees. And as you know, the government is yet to get its cabinet ready owing to the cleaning exercise the president is presently undertaking. This government took over almost an empty treasury, battered system and economy. The President is presently trying to streamline the ministries in tandem with the realities on ground. That has not been done yet. So, we want to see how many of the ministries we have on ground so that that would allow you to carve out the appropriate committees to oversight these ministries. This is a new government. During the previous government when PDP was incharge, things were already on ground, and so it was easier to inaugurate the committees almost immediately. But now we have a new
government with a new way of doing things. So, I don’t see the need for the hurry. There is no vacuum so far. Work that needs to be done is being done. I don’t know why people are worried about committees. There are and will still be a lot of things that will be done differently with this senate. This senate is more transparent and interactive than before. You confirmed that you read tweets of the senate president regularly. That kind of avenue was not there before. This senate wants to interact more with the people. Before now, schedule of the day was given the same day, but now, they don’t need to wait to see the schedule of that day same day, we send it to their various email boxes. Also, we want to make our library an e-library so that you don’t need to be physically present in the precinct of the National Assembly before you get your work done. A lot of things are being put in place that it will only be visible when it is completed. So, this senate is totally different from the previous.
Would you say the onslaught of the military so far against the Boko Haram will meet the target December date given by the President to take the insurgents out of the country?
We are hoping that they will meet the deadline. We have recorded tremendous success and most importantly, this government, under the leadership of President Muhammadu Buhari, is serious about addressing the security challenges. Apart from that of Boko Haram, there are other things that are affecting us economically, including oil theft, kidnapping and armed robbery that are very rampant but are being addressed. The President has been criss-crossing the world to get support from the international community. And the international community, because of the integrity of this government, have shown serious commitment by reaching out. Now, the Army command has shifted to Maiduguri, and the Chief of Army Staff is regularly seen in the warfront. This is the proactive nature of our military formations. We have seen how many Boko Haram commanders are surrendering. Honestly, there is light at the end of the tunnel for us as a nation regarding the Boko Haram insurgents. Unlike before when Nigerians were hopeless, we are very hopeful now that the activities of these insurgents, in a matter of time, will come to an end. Again, insurgency war is not a normal war you just use the fire brigade approach to quench. A lot of things had degenerated before this government came in. A lot of things are to be put in place before one can comfortably say the war would be won; and now things are being put in place and that is why one can say, based on what the military is presently doing, in terms of taking the fight or battle to the insurgents, that they will get rid of the insurgents. The bombs explosions here and there are just a manifestation of the desperation of the dying insurgents. I just returned from Maiduguri (on Sunday), and I can tell you that people are more confident and calm, they feel more secured now than before. And by December, I believe that the target set by the President would be achieved.
You were almost killed by the bombs of the insurgents in your senatorial district early this year such that almost every resident in the district was evacuated, what is the difference between then and now?
There is a tremendous difference. Most of our people in the Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) camp in Maiduguri, about 1,000 of them have been moved back to Gwoza. Presently, virtually all the places occupied by the insurgents have been taken over by our military. The military is in charge of these places. Most of the IDPs are returning home now. As at yesterday, I was with the governor and we were in the process of moving the IDPs back to the local government headquarters such that there will be transit camps in these local government. The challenge we are presently facing arise from the fact that about 18 of the local government areas were destroyed by Boko Haram, so asking people to go back to their houses without rebuilding them will be difficult. That is why the government is trying to rebuild some of these houses before people in those localities can say they are moving back to their houses.
The Obasanjo administration, at inception, was very active with the war on corruption, but it died down later. What is the guarantee that history won’t repeat itself with this administration?
The good thing about this war against corruption is that a corrupt person will not be able to fight corruption. But every Nigerian knows the credibility, integrity and seriousness of President Buhari. So, it is that advantages he is using to fight corruption headlong. Yes, you are right, corruption is not something you can fight and win easily. It is a not a visible war. You have to do a thorough investigation, because you are trying to get at the corrupt individuals who are trying to frustrate every efforts that would lead to their arrest. That is one of the challenges. Meanwhile, the biggest challenge in all of this is that a lot of this corruption is offshore. That means they steal the money and take it out. Unlike here where you could go to a suspect’s house, search, get evidence and get conviction, in the case of offshore, a lot of due diligence would have to be followed. With the emergence of President Buhari, I think every Nigerian is hopeful
and confident that we are on the winning side, because he is a transparent person. And that is why the international community and indeed the Non Governmental Organisations have rallied round him. They see him as someone who truly and honestly wants to make the desired change in the country. We can see that having him as president and his determination to fight corruption, a lot of things are beginning to change in the country.
The Sun.
No comments:
Post a Comment