As a general who saw the Nigerian civil war, are you worried about the renewed agitation by MASSOB and IPOB in the South-east
I have been reading about the problem but I didn’t know it will escalate to the death of some people. I am not afraid. Once we can take correct action at the right time, there will be no fear. Why boko haram took very long was because we didn’t take the matter serious initially and as you can see from some of the revelations so far, a lot of money were made available for arms but the arms were not bought, government didn’t take it serious and so many things went wrong. A soldier not having enough armament to face boko haram with sophisticated weapons was doom. But now the situation is different, since Buhari came in, he has been pumping money and is personally interested in seeing that, these things get there. His service chiefs who are in charge are those who go right in the front with the troop’s which is what commanders are supposed to do.
But don’t you think this has proven that the PDP failed Nigeria?
PDP is different and government is different, not every PDP man was part of government.
Some people are of the opinion that if the South-east wants to go their way, the government should let them go. Would you subscribe to that?
Nigeria will remain as one, they wanted Biafra and we refused, is it now that they will be given their state? The militant brought the same problem, we said no, Boko haram even took over some local governments, but now they have been driven away. Nigeria Must remain as one.
Going back to the army, some Nigerians believe the army has been polarized, that it is now divided on religious line. Do you think so too?
I don’t believe the army has been polarized, some individuals behave some how but that doesn’t mean that the army is polarized. Even in a well-organized establishment, some people still behave somehow. The army is still intact, the commanders are in control. I was in Asaba recently to attend the naval event and you could see that they were doing very well. I will be in Kano for Nigerian army one and the air force too will be done soon. So things are going well, we haven’t gotten news that soldiers are shooting themselves or running away again.
Why has the Nigerian army not advanced like the armies in developed nations?
Armies in some countries are more experienced than the ones in other countries. This is because of equipment or their history. For instance, we have had experience in Nigerian civil war, we have sent our troops to Darfur, and Nigerian was recommended there. We have sent people to Congo and as far as Africa is concern, we are a very good march. We have shown our capability wherever we go. Our only problem was that Boko Haram wasn’t taken serious. It took us three years to end the civil war because Gowon said it was a civil matter, that police could handle it until Biafra turned to something else. I was in the northern front when we captured some of the Biafra soldiers around Lokoja with some of the equipment that we didn’t have in our inventory.
We had to send to Lagos that this is very serious, from there, it was declared a full military procedure. When the boko haram started, I was chairman, Arewa Forum and of course, Jonathan called the elders from North-east and then, myself as chairman, NCF and another person and General Secretary to join the meeting. You could see that there were lots of disagreements. Some were saying there was no boko haram, these are brothers, and they don’t want the military in the state, while others were saying no, these our brothers don’t know what they are saying, we have a big problem, send the military or else there will be no Maiduguri. One of those who spoke up for military intervention was Gen. Shua, who was a very good war time military general. So he knew what he was saying and less than two weeks later, he was killed. Because he disagreed with his colleagues, he was killed. So Jonathan said, anytime you stop killing yourself, I will withdraw the soldiers. So the government too then didn’t take them serious because they were denying the existence of these terrorist.
Some are of the opinion that soldiers shouldn’t be brought in to settle civil matters because it might demystify them. Should we continue using them in place of police?
Security involves everybody, even the police, we don’t have enough of them. Look at ordinary elections, you will hear that about three thousand are sent there, so soldiers come to assist in most cases. But there are some areas that you need the presence of the military to deter anybody thinking of creating trouble, I see the police being deployed more to monitor elections more than policing the people.
How did Nigeria get to the stage of killing each other and bombs being detonated among the citizens?
I have told you that some of these things would have ended if we had nipped it quickly in the bud, either because of wrong advice or we thought we were trying to be good to others. Those who are planning took advantage of that and while we were there, they kept multiplying their efforts. Boko haram shouldn’t have taken us this long. We must go all out and provide all the military needs to fight the war. One thing they don’t like especially during war time is not to be paid. Pay them what they signed for. I remember when I was chief of defense, during the Liberian war, I sent something by air, I use the C-130 and we even hired civilian plane, we were sending them food, even sweets and biscuits. I remember when I visited them, they were happy and one said ‘than you sir, I am licking my sweet and eating my food to shoot them’. So anything that will boost their morals will go a long way. Don’t short change the soldiers during war.
Terrorism is not peculiar to Nigeria, it is becoming a global trend, do you see Nigeria ever regaining the peace and harmony we used to have?
With God nothing is impossible. Our religious leaders must be faithful too. We must respect each other and know that it was not our choice to be different tribes and religion, it was God that created us.
As a former minister of the would you say the FCT is what you envisaged it to be?
The FCT has done a lot. When I was there, the cost of land was nothing to write home about. I think it was two states and FCT that had their vote which was up to one billion. But today, a local government votes goes to billions, suddenly land went up especially during Obasanjo. Plots of land started going for millions of naira, some of the ministers decided to increase these plots arbitrary and started selling it to themselves. I used to sell plots for between 50,000 to 100,000 Naira, depending on the size. But now to get 1000 by 1000 plot of land, you pay between 200 to 300 million naira. For what? Poor people can’t get plot here now. Something has to change.
There has been this emphasis on the master plan, do you think it was distorted?
Well, people who came after me were saying General Usaini this that and that, but I just laugh. They don’t know that when I came in and heard the news, I set up a committee headed by a retired colonel who is dead now and they told me that some of these areas have electrical cables beneath them, that means there are underground cables, but because they are underground and the engineering and land are not working together, they were not cooperating. So the land as far as they are concern is a viable place, and they give it out. Some of the plots we found that were on such things were revoked and given other plots. For some, we tried to see if it was easier to break the houses or divert those system, unfortunately Sani died during that period and I left. But the master plans has been distorted. Where the presidency is now is not in the master plan and I told some people that if you want strict obedience to the master plan, then go and destroy the presidency, the secretariat and the rest. National assembly is not where it is meant to be so it is not in the master plan, that place is supposed to be a joint station for most of transportation, so they should go and destroy it and then everybody kept quiet.
The indigenes of the FCT Have been advocating for integration into the master plan. What do you think of this?
Right from the beginning, when government decided that we wanted a capital in Abuja, the people had to be moved somewhere. But I think as people started coming in, and also with the dwindling finance, it became extremely difficult to move everybody. So that had to slow down. The creation of local government because the FCT operates as a state makes it necessary that certain things must have happen. They have a senator and Reps members which means, there is an extent to how you will move people to a resettlement. Now there is a lot of confusion. It baffles me that, a minister is there, a whole estate will be developed and you wake up someday to say there was no approval for it, so it has to be demolished. It means you have no staff or they are blind. If that house has no plan, an official should have noticed and stopped it.
But when you wait for them to finish a whole estate before coming to demolished it, then it is unfortunate. Those are some of the things that distort the FCT.
Leadership.
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